Can I just reiterate: Atheism is hard, yall.

[rainbowk]

Atheism is easily the most challenging spiritual journey I have ever been on. Geez. I think I'm getting a handle on it and then I'm reminded YET AGAIN that I exist in a culture that is swimming in all kinds of religion and superstition.

Sure, there are many people who are actively religious, who attend a church/temple/meeting with likesouled folks and spend a great deal of time and attention and effort trying to discern the true meaning of their chosen religion. But there are, I suspect, even more of us who wander around in the religion/superstition soup constantly reiterating random bits and pieces, often with poor understanding, and we don't even notice.

For instance, I was having a rough moment a while ago and in an attempt to sort of get a handle on it emotionally I told myself that of course I should just let go of attachment about this issue or some such pseudo-buddhist zen statement. Then I realized, "Hey! Not only do I not really have any idea what's really meant by what I just told myself to do, but even if I did, Buddhism is yet another flawed system of values and beliefs and practices that ordinary people came up with! Because we're all ordinary! Which is not to say that some of its tenets might be correct, but which? Where's the proof that this way is actually better than any other way or holds either The Answer or even a useful answer for me in this situation?"

Crap, seriously. And I have these moments all the damn time. I don't know what the answers are. Full stop. But because I'm a hopeful human, I nearly wrote, "I don't know what the answers are yet." Geez. Maybe I never will! Frig!

Comments

[breklor.livejournal.com]

But it sounds like you're striving for avalueism, not just atheism! "Just because an old book says a god wants me to do this is not a good enough reason," is fine. But why not use a "working model" approach to your life philosophy? "Ah, here's this old Zen thing. It sounds good. Let's go with it until/unless it turns out to suck." And definitely don't jettison whatever values stop you from eating the baby. :)

[rainbowk.livejournal.com]

I'm not striving for anything particularly. It's more a series of realizations that sneak up on me.

I disagree that I'm striving for avaluism actually. I have certain values that I hold very dear indeed.

I'm just saying that any religious bit or piece is as suspect as any other. Something having been believed or practiced for four thousand years by millions of people is not necessarily any more likely to produce the desired results in line with my values than something recent practiced by only a few. I need different evaluative techniques than just "it sounds good" or "so-and-so said".

And let's be realistic, almost every religious belief and practice has been associated with suckage, some of it pretty major and continuous. Which was it? The flawed humans who practiced and believed it or the belief/practice itself? Considering the track record, it hardly seems unwise to be able to identify that what you're dealing with is a belief or practice rooted in religion and it also doesn't seem unwise to reject them until more information is available.

[breklor.livejournal.com]

It wasn't so much the idea that you were striving for avaluism, as it seemed like you were going for a kind of tabula rasa thing on which to (re?)build a value system. Which is cool, as long as you don't, I dunno, spend some time abusing nuns or something to pass the time while you test out certain permutations of the early incomplete structure.

But I think I get what you meant now. :)

[estrellada.livejournal.com]

Y'know, as far as I can tell Atheism is just one other way humans make sense of reality - as are all other philosophies/faiths/religions. I think we just drift into and cling to the one the resonates the most for us - the one that provides the most comfort and the most approachable (to the individual) schema as to understand the big and confusing universe we experience.

Which is to say, uh, don't be so hard on yourself. Or Atheism. :)

advice from the crone, or YMMV

[koppermoon.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I think I've pretty much given up on knowing what the Answer/answers are, and have resolved to enjoy life while I have it. I try to be good to myself and the planet most of the time, and once in a while I even extend that to other human beings .
On a slightly more serious note (and I'm rarely serious), I've found that mindfulness is an awfully good way to achieve the above, although my mind gets so full that it does boggle a bit from time to time.

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

Heh. :) Yeah, I've been a nontheist for a long time, recently coming to identify as a secular humanist, and it can be hard to get rid of those dredges of magical thinking and superstition. They're part of our idioms, our thought patterns, and so on. It is also really, really hard to talk about being a nontheist of any stripe, because it's just so unacceptable, and the thoughts it leads you to are often pretty unwelcome to friends who are religious/theist in any way. :/

[motherinlawtree.livejournal.com]

I like being a Unitarian because if I'm feeling theist I can be a theist and the next day when I'm an atheist I can be an atheist and then the day after when I'm a little of both that's okay too.

[winterlion.livejournal.com]

I listened to this marvellous audiobook "the art of happiness". One of the authors apologized for speaking from the viewpoint of Buddhism as that was all he knew. (one of the authors: Dalai Lama)
Now it's not to say I'm atheist or anything (what I am is ... well it doesn't matter, especially not here).

I actually find frustrating that many people assume judeo/christian perspectives when communicating - and much MUCH moreso in the North than down here. I find it frustrating about myself that I communicate so much using religious references/... by default as opposed to a perspective where "religion is irrelevant to the conversation at hand".

Mind, I have a lot to learn about the art of conversation.
cheers!